Will Obama do Iran for Israel's sake?

Who knows if Obama will eventually order an attack on Iran? Since Obama has become the presumptive nominee for the Democrat party, he has moderated his positions on several issues, and perhaps Iran will be one of them. We can only hope that we are not in for another Dukakis moment: Obama running around in a tank.

Today on Salon.Com, Glenn Greenwald published this article about Iran, right wing Republican politics, dual loyalty, and the Jewish vote (reprinted by way of Common Dreams): The Right's Game-Playing With `Dual Loyalty" and `Anti-Semitism' Accusations.

It contains interesting material about the games right wing Neocons like Joe Lieberman and Abe Foxman (of the ADL) play for political advantage or what they believe is in the best interest of Israel. One day after his presumptive nomination was sealed, Obama bent over backwards to assuage AIPAC of any concern that he is not a true blue supporter of Israel. He repeatedly mentioned the "threat" of Iran and intentionally avoided words like, "Palestinian" or "military occupation," concepts that are totally alien to right wing Likud bent Neocons.

As our political establishment takes new and disturbing steps towards a more confrontational approach with Iran, the effort to stomp out any discussion of the role Israel plays in that policy has once again intensified. Last week, Joe Klein -- basically out of the blue -- observed that while many advocates of an attack on Iraq (which once included Klein) were motivated by "neocolonial" fantasies or ensuring access to Iraq's oil, many other war proponents were motivated by their allegiance to Israel:

The fact that a great many Jewish neoconservatives -- people like Joe Lieberman and the crowd over at Commentary -- plumped for this war, and now for an even more foolish assault on Iran, raised the question of divided loyalties: using U.S. military power, U.S. lives and money, to make the world safe for Israel.

Since then, Klein has escalated the provocative rhetoric, writing several days ago:

You want evidence of divided loyalties? How about the "benign domino theory" that so many Jewish neoconservatives talked to me about -- off the record, of course -- in the runup to the Iraq war, the idea that Israel's security could be won by taking out Saddam, which would set off a cascade of disaster for Israel's enemies in the region? As my grandmother would say, feh! Do you actually deny that the casus belli that dare not speak its name wasn't, as I wrote in February 2003, a desire to make the world safe for Israel? Why the rush now to bomb Iran, a country that poses some threat to Israel but none -- for the moment -- to the United States . . . unless we go ahead, attack it, and the mullahs unleash Hezbollah terrorists against us? Do you really believe the mullahs would stage a nuclear attack on Israel, destroying the third most holy site in Islam and killing untold numbers of Muslims? I am not ruling out the use of force against Iran -- it may come to that -- but you folks seem to embrace it gleefully.

Then, after Joe Lieberman appeared on Face the Nation last weekend to (as usual) agitate for war with Iran, Klein not-so-cryptically asked: "Again, I wonder why Lieberman is so fixated on Iran."

LINK above to the full article.

The rest of the article is even more interesting as Klein faces off against the right wing Neocons in support of Obama. What is troubling about Klein's position is his contention that "it may (eventually) come to that," that being an attack on Iran. How else will it be possible for Israel to remain the only nuclear power in the Middle East, while continuing its military occupation, ethnic cleansing, and colonization of remaining Palestinian land.

The central question then is: will Obama moderate his position on Iran to become a vehicle for Neocon ends? And what does this statement mean: "I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon (AIPAC speech)."



Display:


I will do everything in my power... (2.00 / 1)

It's hard to say.  Will the real obama pls stand up?


I'm for a timeline on Iraq, public funding of elections, women's reproductive rights, gun restrictions and universal suffrage. So why should I vote for Obama?
by William Cooper on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:13:24 PM EST

Re: Will Obama do Iran for Israel's sake? (2.00 / 1)

Excellent diary. And clever too. Maybe more people will pay attention to this issue. Thank you for the great information.


"And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:33:58 PM EST

Your comments are ignorant (none / 0)

Your whole position of jews having "dual loyalties" are offensive and ignorant.

What ignorant people like you and right wing nut jobs have in common is that they believe that a conspiracy about Israel is the center of every strategic argument.

Unlike the Arab states which are generally of one mind, Israel is a democracy with a wide range of opinions.

The meme about attacking Iran for Israel shows just how ignorant you are. Nothing would endanger Israel more than the right wing militarists in either country attacking Iran.

The real purpose of Iran presenting the idea that it can be nuclear is to perpetuate the Mullah's rule. Much as Saddam thought he could scare off the west if the west thought he had nukes. Or the Korean nut ball thinking it would keep him in leadership for ever. These nukes or illusions of nukes are a domestic issue.

On the left or on the right jew-haters are a nasty little species...you may cloak yours in your "anti-zionism" rhetoric but it still stinks of the same old Jews are behind all the evil in the world crud.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:29:47 PM EST

Re: Your comments are ignorant (none / 0)

Wow. What a leap. Could you show me specifically where any of this is anti Jewish? Or even anti Israel?


"And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your comments are ignorant (none / 0)

and don't you think that the neo-cons and the  religious right wing, have been playing an interesting game of footsie with Israel for the past few years?


"And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:46:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They Are!!! That's My Point!!! (none / 0)

Whether it is evangelical nut jobs who want Israeli to survive so all the world's Jews to go there to convert or die, or the underdog of the moment mentality often found on the left that villainizes Israel without every comprehending the diversity of opinions within that nation the results are the same.

The attacking Iran for Israel is the latest fantasy that both sides seem to share.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They Are!!! That's My Point!!! (none / 0)

You are very right in that Isreal is rather diverse and to try to lump an entire country into a single issue ar world view is silly. I do not see Israel as being the bad or good guy here and I do understand their desire for peace and safety.

I actually try not to see anything in such black and white terms. My real concern is that we have this monumental powderkeg in the Mideast and in Iran and Afganistan and Pakistan and on and on...

I fervently hope that you are correct, and this notion of attacking Iran or Isreal is simply a nutjob fantasy. So I might just be chicken little, but as Bobswern just said on another critical issue, I think the sky is falling.


"And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:36:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They Are!!! That's My Point!!! (none / 0)

Believe it or not, the Mullahs are rational and so are most of the members of the Knesset. The Mullahs are just trying to keep themselves by being deposed by the Iranian people who hate their guts. Despite his face in the press the president of Iran is a powerless nut job...and he is hated as well. I have high hopes for both Iran and Israel moving beyond this confrontation that is being cooked up by outside forces. Traditionally...Jews and Persians have been closely linked. It is the only place in the middle east besides Israel where there is a Jewish population. Since you mention ethnic cleansing you should probably be aware that nearly a million Sephardic Jews were "cleansed" out of arab countries in the 1950s, though they have lived there for 2000 plus years. It is fact the Sephardic Jews that are the most conservative and hawkish, not the European Jews who are traditionally lefty. In fact, real Zionism is a lefty concept. It was about giving an oppressed minority self determination within a socialist context.  


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:11:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They Are!!! That's My Point!!! (none / 0)

No need to offer propaganda here.

There were increasing antiSemitic incidents in some Arab countries after the 1948 war and ethnic cleansing of 750K Palestinians from their homes, lands, and villages and towns in what became Israel, but there was no formal "cleansing" of Jews from those countries. In fact, Israel, looking for increased population used incentives (and some alleged dirty tricks) to spur emigration to Israel. This lasted from 1948 until the middle 1960s. Interestingly, very few Iranian Jews preferred to leave their 3,000 year old community in Tehran, and there they remain today, living as loyal Iranians.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:32:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They Are!!! That's My Point!!! (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, I spent a good chunk of my childhood in Tehran. They had it worked out fairly well before the revolution. I had not heard as much about how Jews, Armeniens and Christians are being treated in Iran. I do know that I really like Iran and the Persian people. Not so much the Mullahs tho.


"And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 05:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your comments are ignorant (none / 0)

This retort,

"Your whole position of jews having "dual loyalties" are offensive and ignorant,"

is itself ignorant, since it was not part of my comments, but rather an issue taken up by author. If you take the time to read the article, you would understand that at least one right wing writer, who accused those who contend that Jews have "dual loyalty" as being anti-Semitic, went on to publish an article in an Israeli newspaper, which encouraged Jewish Americans to vote for the presidential candidate who is best for Israel.

Take the time and read.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:36:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your comments are ignorant (none / 0)

Like I said, there are divergent opinions in Israel. My feeling is that when the right wing tries to cook up a war with Iran it is bad news for Israel.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:14:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your comments are ignorant (none / 0)

Divergence may be true on the street, but politically, all major party members of solidly behind an Iran must not get nuclear weapons policy, and that includes everyone of note from Labor to Likud.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:34:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a world thing (none / 0)

In that opinion they are not divergent from most of Europe and most of Iran's other neighbors. It is actually hard to make the case that there should be any more nuclear players in the world. We need less not more.

In terms of bombing Iran, it would do nothing to stop the program but rather encourage the rationale for having a bomb.

It was actually the blunders of JFK in Turkey and Cuba that kicked off the Soviet strategic build up. Before that confrontation the Soviet strategic threat, with missiles and especially at sea, was rather weak.

Attacking them tends to make nations arm up rather than disarm.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:48:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a world thing (none / 0)

But there is only talk and threats of attack from the US and Israel in dealing with it, although Bush has pulled back his rhetoric and has even cautioned Israel concerning a solo attempt to destroy Iran's facilities. Bush may be listening to warnings concerning 300 dollar a barrel oil if Iran is bombed.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:22:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a world thing (none / 0)

talk of threats, but no way of executing them...or they wouldn't be talking

these plants can not be bombed out of existence

Just think about the use of nukes against Israel...
...the proximity of Arab nations to Israel makes them impractical

...and Israel has second strike submarine capacity

The game that is really going on here is not in public view.

...and the if you think about it, the Bush and Cheney families would be dancing in the streets with $300 oil


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:28:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

YOU ARE A FRAUD...NOT A PROGRESSIVE (none / 0)

It's not just MyDD, there is no place on any left leaning blog site  that you have ever posted in favor of any progressive issue or candidate. Almost every post is a slam about Israel or a slam against a US politician, including attacking liberal/progressive dems if they are jewish. I suggest you strap on a vest and put your body where your keyboard is.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:02:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your comments are ignorant (none / 0)

Funny that you used the "the street" construction. This is usually used in the Arab world to explain the difference between what regular people think and what self appointed leaders think. The Knesset is highly representative by a wide range of parties. The two that you mention are actually blocks that form coalitions. There is no opinion on the street  that doesn't also have a voice in the Knesset. I suggest you read up on the complexities of Israeli politics. It ain't just repubs and democrats there.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 05:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your comments are ignorant (none / 0)

The BBC and Israeli Propaganda
by shergald Daily Kos
Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 05:28:22 AM PST

The BBC and Israeli Propaganda is the subtitle of an article, Israel's Plan for a Military Strike on Iran, by JONATHAN COOK, a British journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. It was published in CounterPunch on October 12, 2006, but its obvious relevancy today for American foreign policy because it provides a look at how Israeli politicians of all persuasions are viewing Iran.

The last few days have seen quite a number of diaries posted on the topic of Israel's expected attack of Iran in order to stop its nuclear program, so far announced by the Iranians to be for peaceful purposes. Not widely publicized in the US, the Israeli government commissioned Israel's leading filmmaker, Noam Shalev, to execute a documentary about the Iranian threat, whose content lends further weight to the likelihood of an Israeli attack.

The Middle East, and possibly the world, stands on the brink of a terrible conflagration as Israel and the United States prepare to deal with Iran's alleged ambition to acquire nuclear weapons. Israel, it becomes clearer by the day, wants to use its air force to deliver a knockout blow against Tehran. It is not known whether it will use conventional weapons or a nuclear warhead in such a strike.

At this potentially cataclysmic moment in global politics, it is good to see that one of the world's leading broadcasters, the BBC, decided this week that it should air a documentary entitled "Will Israel bomb Iran?" It is the question on everyone's lips and doubtless, with the imprimatur of the BBC, the program will sell around the world.

Although Cook enumerates various slighted points not covered in the film, 1) that such an attack would be a gross violation of international law, 2) that Israel's own nuclear arsenal is unmonitored by the IAEA, 3) that Israel is perceived as a threat by its neighbors and may be fuelling a Middle East arms race, 4) that the consequences of an Israeli strike would cause instability and violence across the Middle East, including in Iraq, where British and American troops are stationed as an occupying force, or 5) that it is certain to provoke a steep rise in global jihad against the West, it is the words of various Israeli officials and politicians, who appear in the film, that loom ominous.

....the program dedicates 40 minutes to footage of Top Gun heroics by the Israeli air force, and the recollections of pilots who carried out a similar, "daring" attack on Iraq's nuclear reactor in the early 1980s; menacing long shots of Iran's nuclear research facilities; and interviews with three former Israeli prime ministers, a former Israeli military chief of staff, various officials in Israeli military intelligence, and a professor who designs Israel's military arsenal.

All of them speak with one voice: Israel, they claim, is about to be "wiped out" by Iranian nuclear weapons and must defend itself "whatever the consequences".

They are given plenty of airtime to repeat unchallenged well-worn propaganda Israel has been peddling through its own media, and which has been credulously amplified by the international media: that Iran is led by a fanatical anti-Semite who, like Adolf Hitler, believes he can commit genocide against the Jewish people, this time through a nuclear holocaust.

Other Israeli misinformation, none of it believed by serious analysts, is also uncritically spread by the film-makers: that Hizbullah in Lebanon is a puppet of Iran, waiting to aid its master in Israel's destruction; that Iran is only months away from creating nuclear weapons, a "point of no return", as the program warns; and that a "fragile" Israel is under constant threat of annihilation from all its Arab neighbors.

But the program's unequivocal main theme -- echoing precisely Israel's own agenda -- is that Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is hell-bent on destroying Israel. The film makers treat seriously, bordering on reverentially, preposterous comments from Israel's leaders about this threat.

Shimon Peres, the Israeli government's veteran roving ambassador, claims, for example, that Iran has made "a call for genocide" against Israel, compares an Iranian nuclear bomb to a "flying concentration camp", and warns that "no one would like to see a comeback to the times of the Nazis".
Cabinet minister Avi Dichter, a former head of the Shin Bet domestic security service, believes Israel faces "an existential threat" from Iran. And Zvi Stauber, a former senior figure in military intelligence, compares Israel's situation to a man whose neighbor "has a gun and he declares every day he is going to kill you".
But pride of place goes to Binyamin Netanyahu, a former prime minister and the current leader of the opposition. He claims repeatedly that the only possible reason Iran and its president could want a nuclear arsenal is for Israel's "extermination". "If he can get away with it, he'll do it." "Ayatollahs with atomic bombs are a powerful threat to all of us." A nuclear Iran "is a threat unlike anything we have seen before. It's beyond politics"

As to the matter of a conventional versus a nuclear attack, Ehud Barak provides abundant hints:

"Ultimately we are standing alone," he says, in apparent justification for an illegal, unilateral strike. Iran's nuclear research facilities, Barak warns, are hidden deep underground, so deep that "no conventional weapon can penetrate", leaving us to infer that in such circumstances Israel will have no choice but use a tactical nuclear strike in its "self-defense". And, getting into his stride, Barak adds that some facilities are in crowded urban areas "where any attack could end up in civilian collateral damage".

"Apart from a brief appearance by an Iranian diplomat, no countervailing opinions are entertained in the BBC program; only Israel's military and political leadership is allowed to speak." Juxtaposing the above remarks are those from a poorly translated speech by Ahmadinejad. He is quoted as saying: "The regime occupying Jerusalem should be eliminated from the page of history". This is at least an improvement on the original translation, much repeated in the program by Netanyahu and others, that "Israel must be wiped off the map". According to Cook, "the program makers infer from their more accurate translation the same diabolical intent on Ahmadinejad's part as suggested by Netanyahu's fabricated version."

The complexities of Israeli politics is irrelevant in foreign policy issues when you have all of the major parties cooperating in tandem on questions like Iran's nuclear facilities. Read Cook's original article or this one available through Daily Kos search.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 05:35:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wish you were as smart as you are... (none / 0)

... obsessed that the jews are going to bomb Iran.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:12:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wish you were as smart as you are... (none / 0)

Stop conflating jews and Israelis or the Israeli government. The majority of jews would not agree with your right wing viewpoints.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:50:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wish you were as smart as you are... (none / 0)

You may be the dumbest person to ever post here. You obviously don't know any Jewish people. You reject historical fact. You don't know what the definition of Zionism is. You don't even know what right wing is! And here you sit in your moral superiority on land that your ancestors stole from the people who were already living here.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:55:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Chicken Little (none / 0)

Even the Iranians know that the nuke thing is just plain crazy.

http://www.newsday.com/services/newspape r/printedition/thursday/nation/ny-usiran 035750244jul03,0,2618920.story


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 02:43:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

YOU ARE AMAZING!!! (none / 0)

Never once, with all the issues that we are facing as a country, have you ever posted anything on myDD that supported any progressive issue. Not energy policy, not the environment, not the illegal war in Iraq, not the abuses of the Bushies, not the outsourcing of jobs, not health care, not campaign reform, not torture, and no diary in support of any of any candidate in the primaries, just one issue...Israel.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 04:02:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ARGH! (2.00 / 1)

presumptive nominee for the Democrat party

{HEAD EXPLODES}

CORRECT IT NOW!


Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!
by X Stryker on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:33:20 PM EST

if Obama were as concerned (none / 0)

with Kenyan interests, as Lieberman is with Israeli, people would be calling him a traitor.


by highgrade on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:34:12 PM EST

Re: if Obama were as concerned (none / 0)

How about Ted Kennedy and other Irish-Americans who look out for the interests of Ireland...are they traitors...I would welcome Obama looking out for Kenyan interests instead of seeking to exploit them. Our ethnic links to the world are our strength not our weakness. Lieberman's problem isn't fielty to Israel, it is betrayal of the democratic party.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:23:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sigh, sigh, and sigh. (2.00 / 1)

You know, I've gotten used to being accused of "dual loyalties" and "insufficient love of country" by ignorant dickheads because I'm a Jew.  What I'll never get used to is the fact that nowadays, those dickheads are--more often than not--Democrats, and practically never the people I expect to hear bigoted bullcrap from (evangelicals and traditionalist Catholics).

That said, Joe Lieberman is a dick, and would be a dick no matter what his religious beliefs were.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:09:14 PM EST

It's the Underdog of the moment mentality (none / 0)

...that sometimes makes the less intelligent on the left blind to the larger historical issues. They mean well but often have no context...so however seems like the victim at the moment is the side to be on. They complexities of the middle east make their tiny minds explode and so they revert to what they learned from their parents and churches, "the jews are the problem."

Does any body acknowledge that even without Israel that middle east would still be a powder keg? Israel isn't the problem. Strong man government from tribal roots is why the middle east will always be a mess, especially since they are awash in cash.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 02:20:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the Underdog of the moment mentality (none / 0)

"Military occupation, ethnic cleansing, and colonization of remaining Palestinian land" isn't a problem?


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the Underdog of the moment mentality (none / 0)

Again, you need to realize that it was Jews that were ethnically cleansed by Arab countries in the 1950s. Colonization? Where?
Israel gave back Sinai and Gaza and abandoned those "colonies."
The west bank is about figuring out the lines of division. Arafat walked away from a sweet deal in 2000. It went very far. Instead he went back to playing a posturing warrior king and the west bank collapsed.

Military occupation? Yeah. With narrow geography there is going to be military occupation until there is a treaty. You don't seem to get that Israel considers occupying land a liability rather than a plus. You really need to talk to a wider variety of Israelis and read more diverse Israeli press.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:20:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the Underdog of the moment mentality (none / 0)

Again, you need to realize that it was Jews that were ethnically cleansed by Arab countries in the 1950s. Colonization? Where?
Israel gave back Sinai and Gaza and abandoned those "colonies."

The west bank is about figuring out the lines of division. Arafat walked away from a sweet deal in 2000. It went very far. Instead he went back to playing a posturing warrior king and the west bank collapsed.

Military occupation? Yeah. With narrow geography there is going to be military occupation until there is a treaty. You don't seem to get that Israel considers occupying land a liability rather than a plus.

You really need to talk to a wider variety of Israelis and read more diverse Israeli press.

The bolded text are all lies and false propaganda including the myth of the generous offer, which Barak himself said was impossible. Not even his own party, Labor, would have voted to give up even one settlement among 150 formal Israeli only villages, towns, and cities located all over the West Bank (and Gaza at the time). Settlements were off the table during Camp David/Taba. But since you know so much, you probably knew that as well, right? You must be new at this game, oblivious to what is happening every day in the West Bank, and Gaza for that matter. And you have nothing to teach anyone about this conflict.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:50:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the Underdog of the moment mentality (none / 0)

You are just a typical guilty knee jerk leftist come lately.
This deal would have been a confidence builder. Hopes were high on both sides. Arafat blew it up and the Cuntisleeza and Bush walked away from doing anything at all.

Arafat was a vain arrogant little man who could never make the leap from being a mafiosa-style don to being a national leader...and he brought the Palestinian nation down with him.

Want evidence, look at the situation in 1999 and look at it now.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 05:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the Underdog of the moment mentality (2.00 / 1)

On the first bold...you are obviously very young or ignorant. The majority of jews in Israel came from Arab countries that they were "cleansed" from in the 1950. Not propaganda. Go to your library or a newspaper and check.

Israel gave back Sinai and Gaza...again, even a current newspaper might be of some assistance to you

Arafat walked away from nationhood in 2000. He was the roadblock. Even Saheb Erekat generally acknowledges this. But I guess you know better. You were probably there.

The land is liability not a plus. That is self evident and has been stated by every labour government.

So my question for you is, are you a native american?
If not, what is your claim to where you are presently living?


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:21:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's the Underdog of the moment mentality (none / 0)

Arguing this propaganda is no longer worth the effort. Get educated.

Bye.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 08:53:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just as I thought (none / 0)

You are just a jew hater in the pretense of progressivism.


Cindy is John McCain's Personal GI Bill
by demwords on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh, sigh, and sigh. (none / 0)

I don't think anyone would mind if you gave Israel some consideration in your vote for president, so long as it is the liberal Democratic, and civil and human rights perspective we support, that you are considering. Vote for the right wing or Zionist nationalism that begets this perennial conflict which kills Palestinians, and Israelis, every week, and I suppose most liberal Democrats would damn you.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:55:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So basically, (none / 0)

I have to agree with you 100% on one issue (your "either you believe Israel is totally evil or you're a Republican" bullcrap is what is known as a false dichotomy--there is an awful lot of gray between "Palestine uber alles" and "Israel uber alles"), or have my loyalty to my country challenged by Democrats like yourself.  Not my loyalty to the Democratic party, even, but my loyalty to MY COUNTRY.

Meanwhile, the Democratic nominee for president disagrees with the "liberal Democratic perspective" on FISA, gay marriage, and a handful of other issues...yet I have never heard him accused of being disloyal to America by a Democrat on that account.

Psst...your bullshit is showing.  You might want to fix that.


Wouldn't it be nice if there were no rhetorical questions?
by Elsinora on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So basically, (none / 0)

You seem to be reading an awful lot into this diary as well as my comments to conclude that someone accused of dual loyalty or said something specific about your loyalities. Not true.

I consider foreign policy perspectives one major reason for voting or not voting for a candidate, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one component in that consideration. Right wing people like Joe Lieberman, on the other hand, have apparently been going around encouraging Jewish voters to hang with McCain because Obama is not good for Israel, meaning he is likely to want to negotiate with Iran rather than bombing it nuclear facilities. You need to attack Greenwald if you disagree with his points, not the publisher of his article.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 09:15:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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